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Volume or Frequency?

A huge crowd.

I love it when a great discussion spawns an idea that hopefully brings us closer to understanding what makes us tick and how we can achieve our goals. Today I’m going to ponder on volume and frequency of your daygame.

 

Volume And Warming Up

The discussion started in the comments section of a blog post over at Days of Game. Nash observed that in both Tom Torero’s and his approach to daygame there is a period of warming up, where first sets are noticeably worse. He then suggests that high volume approaching, per each session, is a must because warming up is inevitable.

“When I see ‘3 approaches,’ I know a guy isn’t at the potential he could be if he hit ’10’ or ’15’ and really hit his stride.” – Nash

Let me start by saying that you definitely need to accumulate a lot of approaches before you can even think of being comfortable with picking up girls on the streets. In my opinion, that requirement ranges from 100 to 300 sets. Bear in mind that “comfortable” doesn’t mean “having results” and we’re just talking about the total amount of work done.

Daily high volume approaching (because that’s how I understand Nash’s proposition) should be a phase in your daygame journey just like going for the one rep max is just a phase in most lifters life.

 

Maxing Out

That’s a good analogy for our daygame struggles. Beginners are training their social muscles just like newbies at the gym train their, well, regular muscles. To oversimplify things and take this one step further: you can train for strength or for endurance. If you’re doing the former you’ll be able to lift more weights at a time. If you’re doing the latter you can work out for much longer.

I’m not saying that doing one doesn’t help you with another. After I started to work out heavily, my long distance running improved as well. But the point is when I was running marathons my body was adapting to endure constant intensity for a very long time. Now that I’m only lifting weights, my body is adapting to – you’ve guessed it – lifting more weights.

Back to daygame. I really do believe that you either train your social muscle to endure a long periods of stressful events (volume of approaches per session) or its ability to switch from the inside of your head to being social (frequency of sessions).

 

Dangers Of High Volume Approaching

We all know dangers that come with high volume approaching. Clueless guys spam approach the streets because some bald dude on the Internet said that “you need 100-300 approaches to become comfortable”. Some people will think that they can do all that in one week and they’re going to miss the most crucial part of learning – reflection.

I’m not saying that every guy that does 15 sets per day is a spam approacher. But there is a risk that some will take “you need high volume every day you go out” as “spam approach the city”!

You can spend a whole day fishing or you can just electrocute the motherfuckers and collect stunned fish.

I always was an advocate of frequent gaming. That is – go out every single day and do even one or two sets. More, if you can. But keep talking to girls, keep getting used to switching from your inner dialogue to talking to a chick on the street. That’s the only way how it’ll become easier.

 

A huge crowd.

It’s not like you have to “catch ’em all”.

 

Vibe And Momentum

I share Nick Krauser’s sentiments when it comes to hunting and what he calls crack pipe daygame. I was never one of those crazy guys doing hundreds of sets per month or tens of sets per day. My goal wasn’t to bang as many girls as possible but to become competent. I wanted to be sure that I can handle all the daytime social situations smoothly.

What I didn’t want was to rely on my current state to fuel my interactions. Good humor is transient. I was looking for something that could give me more control over my actions. You can see it even in my posts from 2015 on vibe and momentum. I really wanted to be able to chat up this girl on a bus stop or that girl that I see on my way to the gym.

Daygame shouldn’t be some kind of weird ritual you do on the weekends. After a while it should become natural to you so you can do it as you run your daily errands.

 

Are You A Sniper Or A Machinegunner?

Saying you need to warm up, to do 5-10-20 sets before you’re at the top of your game means that you rob yourself of all those random opportunities when you’re doing something else like living your life. Besides, there aren’t that many places in the world where you can consistently do tens of sets every time you go out. What then? You’ll be stuck up in constant warm-up.

Of course, some guys will do better after doing ten sets than during their first approach of the day. But others will be exhausted and they will need a coffee or a nap. In both cases working on your base level of vibe and the ability to jump right into a proper state will be useful.

“I’d say Crack Pipe and Fat Buddha game are equally good but very clearly appropriate for different moods and circumstances.” – Nick Krauser

I’d pile on and say these are different styles for high-intermediate/advanced daygamers and while they are both good, they are not interchangeable. Some people will have better results doing one or the other. Others will burn out really quickly doing one of these things. It’s all about your personality, there is no “one size fits all” solution.

Just make sure you know what you’re doing and why. And don’t spam approach.

tddaygame
 

Male-female relationships commentator. Also a traveler, adrenaline junkie and, believe it or not, introvert. Still obsessed with working out, coaching daygame and living life to the full.

Click Here to Leave a Comment Below 12 comments
Magnum - 2017-11-19

Great post – couldn’t agree more

Reply
    tddaygame - 2017-11-19

    Thanks! Though I would love to hear some counterarguments.

    Reply
TitanErik - 2017-11-20

Tom Torerro has spoken about this a lot in videos. He calls it ‘sniper vs shotgun’ and in the video after the New York infields one he talks about short term momentum vs long term momentum. My favourite idea of his is the flow one where he gets into zen state from mastery of the daygame.

Reply
Nash - 2017-11-21

Hey TD:

Good discussion here (and thanks for the shout-out). Let’s keep this going:

>> I always was an advocate of frequent gaming. That is – go out every single day

The thing I like most about your POV is “go out often” and the “not just weekends” aspects. I am with you 100% here. I am at my best when I do a solid regimen (10+/day, at least 2 days in a week), and then, as near as possible to every day… not out of “religious commitment,” but because I love daygame and girls.

At that point ^, I’m with you… and you take the points I make in my post a bit further (and in a great direction), as you add “multiple days per week.” It’s getting at the same thing I’m try to get at… which is about how to be “loose” in the approach. Aka… “warmed up.”

I am interested in optimal “vibe” or “comfort in the approach”, and I think your multiple days per week is essential to that.

Yes to all that.

Reply
Nash - 2017-11-21

Part II:

>> You’ll be stuck up in constant warm-up

No one ever said anything about “being in warm up mode” (whatever that is) vs “real mode” (whatever that is).

What would that even mean? Approach “fake girls” until we’re warm, then real ones?? Do “fake approaches” and then “mean it more” later? I know that’s not what you mean, but that concept takes the point of all this off-track… and is distracting for new guys.

I realize as we start down this “warm up” path, we get “overly technical” as men, and start with conclusion like “like getting stuck in “warm up” mode. Part of this is just how men communicate.

Here’s what I said in the comments on my post:

>> There are no “practice” sets. There are no “warm up” sets. Only sets. They’re all real.
— Nash

To my mind, there is no such thing as “warm up mode.” Not according to me. Every approach is “real.” So… it’s impossible to “get stuck” in warming up.

When we talk about “being warm,” think of it in RETROSPECT… after the fact, not while you’re out talking to girls. As in, “Oh yeah, that 4th girl, I was properly warmed up and it went well.” Or… “that first girl, she was so hot, but I was clunky… I hadn’t really warmed up yet.”

Simple.

To “warm up”… is to approach. That’s it. And it seems like “simple math” that you will be MORE LIKELY to be cold in earlier approaches, and MORE LIKELY to be “warm” in latter approaches.

The main point of my post was that WE CAN SEE TOM WARM UP… in that NYC footage. Watch the footage. That’s what’s awesome about that clip. He is not a beginner… and yet… after the first 2-3 sets, the QUALITY of his approaching gets much better.

And this is not “theory.” His footage is a great, and clear, example. Check it out.

I get it… “not always so.” Of course. “Not every time.” I know.

But as a rule… yeah… more “WITHIN-DAY VOLUME” AND “MORE DAYS PER WEEK” will help make this instinctive/natural. Will keep you “warm.”

Dur. So many words to say something so obvious.

I’ll go back to my claim that doing “1 or 2” approaches here/there (even for intermediate/advanced) is “less than optimal” on average. Better than nothing… but not recommended if you want to hit your potential.

I took a number on approach #1 last week (pretty solid). And I had a fucking great idate with a young Korean girl, also first approach. I get it. It’s more than possible to do well before you’re warm… but MORE LIKELY after you warm up.

And… TOM’S FOOTAGE is a perfect example. He gets closer to optimal, after he “warms up” — as in SEVERAL APPROACHES THAT DAY.

His first approaches aren’t “practice,” he is never in “warm up mode,” – those approaches just kind of suck. And it’s HIM, not the girls. He’s too fast. He is “forcing it.” That’s normal when you’re “cold.” I’m not dissing him, he’s obviously “top tier.” But he’s “cold.” And after he “warms up” – BAM! Good daygame.

*bow*

Viva daygame.

Reply
    Viktor - 2017-11-21

    DaysofGame a curious question if I may. Are you (like me) INTJ? I am autistic and I read your blog and that of Nick Krauser and they resonate with me for the technical precision and data. Are you on the autistic spectrum? My wing describes me as gamma which I take to mean high functioning introvert academic.

    Reply
    Nash - 2017-11-21

    Hey Viktor.

    >> Are you on the autistic spectrum?

    Ha. Well… that doesn’t sound flattering, but I hear what you’re saying.

    I think I’m too “high functioning” to qualify as autistic/aspie. No one has ever called me that. “Very logical,” yes. But autistic, no.

    But you’re exactly right about Krauser, me, my wing Runner (who just emailed me to tell me he is INTJ… I’m not into MyersBrigs, so I don’t know what I am)… you’re on to something.

    I could recommend THIS:
    https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Difference-Female-Brains-Autism/dp/046500556X

    That is a great book about masc vs fem. Excellent. And interestingly… it closes up by saying that “autism” is basically “hyper masculine.” Not as in “hyper John Wayne” or anything like that. But hyper “systems oriented.”

    Excellent book.

    This is sort of what I meant when I made the comment about “this is how men communicate.” We like “instruction manuals” even for things that aren’t linear… we want linear answers.

    I hear you, man.

    And there is this odd “synergy” between folks that like the internet and masculinity and game. There are other ways to learn about girls, but we that came at it via the internet tend toward this autistic/aspie/ADD type of thinking.

    Cheers to you, man.

    Reply
    tddaygame - 2017-11-21

    >> There are no “practice” sets. There are no “warm up” sets. Only sets. They’re all real. — Nash

    High five on that.

    >> you will be MORE LIKELY to be cold in earlier approaches, and MORE LIKELY to be “warm” in latter approaches.

    That’s my main point. The answer to that is not to “do more” but to “learn how to start warm”.

    >> Watch the footage. (…) His first approaches aren’t “practice,” he is never in “warm up mode,” – those approaches just kind of suck. And it’s HIM, not the girls. He’s too fast. He is “forcing it.” That’s normal when you’re “cold.” I’m not dissing him, he’s obviously “top tier.” But he’s “cold.” And after he “warms up” – BAM! Good daygame.

    My premise is: it is totally wrong to assume that’s the best way to do daygame. I was never a guy who could get over my shortcomings. If that’s my sticking point – I’d deal with it, not create workarounds.

    >> I’ll go back to my claim that doing “1 or 2” approaches here/there (even for intermediate/advanced) is “less than optimal” on average. Better than nothing… but not recommended if you want to hit your potential.

    Depends on what you’re aiming for. If you’re living in a big city where you can do few approaches a day at best then the most reasonable thing to do is to make sure every set counts.

    The same goes if you don’t want to become a full-time daygamer but to game as you go on with your regular life.

    However, if you can regularly do tens of sets every time you go out and you don’t mind that some will be “cold” – go bananas. Although I’ve only been to a one city where that’s possible.

    Reply
Nash - 2017-11-21

>> city where you can do few approaches a day at best then the most reasonable thing to do is to make sure every set counts.

Okay, I hear you. I get it.

We’re sort of solving different problems. You are focused on “daygame in smaller cities” (that’s not your only point, but it’s one you’re making).

>> he most reasonable thing to do is to make sure every set counts.

Yeah. I hear you. I just don’t know how to “make it count” or to “start warm.”

Even if I have to “apply to several jobs.” I intentionally start with one I’m not as interested in… so I can “get warm.” Totally unrelated to daygame, that’s my advice. Do your “pitch” a couple times, get it warm, then drop into the ones you really want.

In a smaller city… I’d recommend flirting with hired guns. Have lunch where you can ping a few social moments. And then plan on getting coffee someplace you can flirt. Then… hit the streets.

I know YOU know all this. I respect you, man. And I get that you’re pro.

Props to you, Tom.

Reply
Nash - 2017-11-21

>> >> That’s my main point. The answer to that is not to “do more” but to “learn how to start warm”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbIx-eugko

I had never seen ^ this, but some guy named Carlos dropped it on my blog and it’s Tom Torero talking about those exact NYC sets. Tom T. says basically the same thing I do… about how “mechanical” he is, and then he starts to flow.

And… at the end… he says what you’re saying about “more days per week.”

He talks about “day momentum” (which is my point), and then “week momentum” (which is what I hear you saying) and “month momentum.” All of that is legit.

There are different levels of “warm.”

Right on.

Viva daygame.

Reply
Scott - 2017-11-24

Very good topic and discussion guys. I would be interested in hearing both of your thoughts on a concrete example. Here’s the hypothetical: an early intermediate guy has a choice for a full month to do either a) 2-3 sets per day EVERY day or b) only 4 Saturday sessions of 20 sets per session. Either way at the end of the month he will have done a total of 80 approaches.

Questions are:
1. In which scenario would you expect his results (numbers, dates, lays) to be better?
2. In which scenario do you expect his skill level will have improved more at the end of the month?

Reply
    tddaygame - 2017-11-24

    I’ll take a bite.

    If the guy is able to do 20 sets without losing his mojo then I’d say his results will be comparable. If his daygame deteriorates after 7-15 sets (as it’s very often the case) then he’ll do better daily. If he really needs to warm up he’ll do better on Saturdays.

    There are simply too many factors to include in the analysis. Let’s say that on one Saturday and on one Monday he is having an awful migraine. That’s 20 approaches out for Saturday daygamer but only a few for the daily daygamer.

    What skills will improve? Definitely daygame stamina for the Saturday daygamer and switching context for the daily one. As for the AA, quality of sessions, etc. – I have no idea.

    Reply

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